Question from an uneducated Newbie...

[ninteen45]

I'd like to make a Vapourbot, but I have no skills in using CAD. I do, However, Have a Game called Robot Arena 2. Would I be able to use this instead?

gametechmods.com/forums/index.php

Thanks.

[AJ]

First of all, welcome to the forum, ninteen45! Thanks for joining.

Are you a member on the GameTechMods forums?

Are you familiar with the FRA forum? That is where we usually are. It just so happens that forum closed for maintenance about half an hour ago.

How much do you know about vapourbots so far? If you haven't seen it already The Beginners Guide to Vapourbots is a good place to start. There are plenty of people here who can give you all the help you need to create a vapourbot.

Using Robot Arena 2 is fine. But actually, you don't need a CAD at all to make a vapourbot - the most important aspect is its stats. However, there are people here, myself included who would be more than happy to CAD a design for you. In fact, most people don't CAD here, so you're not alone.

There is a very similar fantasy robot combat style where you would need a CAD. Rather than complex stats that system uses a series of points. You can find details on that here. The guys there will be happy to help. If you are a member at GameTechMods you might even know some of them already.

Sorry to throw lots of questions and information at you. I hope that helps in some way.

[ninteen45]

Yes, I am a member there, I'm system32. I'm glad I can use dsl as a visual aid, this'll help a lot!

[Un Autre Monde]

Welcome dude!

CADs are in no way necessary to create good vapourbots; details aren't needed either, if you can knock up a good set of stats then you should do well. I suggest you read the Beginners' Guide To Vapourbots (found here: strickenone.proboards99.com/index.cgi?board=gen&action=display&thread=299 ) and there are a few other topics dedicated to providing help on these boards and the FRA ones, if I may be awfully self-promoting and plug my own Table Of Motor Power And Weight ( strickenone.proboards99.com/index.cgi?board=chevawards&action=display&thread=491 ) which might be of use to you.

If there is anything at all you want to know, or even if there isn't, feel free to ask any of us for help here, via PM or via MSN. We're a nice group of people really

[Apeman!]

welcome ninteen45! CADs are by no means needed, but if you want one, a Paint CAD is as good as anything else, most important stuff has been explained by V and AJ, please sign up to the FRA, thats our most important base of operations

how did you wind up in the mighty world of vapourbots?

[ninteen45]

I'm a Robot nerd. Plain and simple.

Slight problem: The Maximum weight allowed is 100KG (Wheeled) (I think...)

RA2 has a different weight system:

Is this a SHW?

[Un Autre Monde]

What it weighs in RA2 doesn't matter, as long as you can stat it so it's under 100kg that's not a problem.

[Apeman!]

what Im interested in however is how you found this specific forum, its nice to have a clear view of exactly how people end up here

if you use SHW pictures from RA2, just dont tell us the scale of that picture and we will prove ourselves as gullible as possible and trust you in it being a HW, I promise

as long as through your stats you prove the sum of your parts is 100 kg you'll do fine

[ninteen45]

it's a LW. I'll post one of it next to Wedge of Doom.

[Apeman!]

For a picture of your bot a screenshot like that is fine Ninteen45, very fine indeed. A vapourbot is more than a picture though, we ask you to describe what your bot is like, what motors it uses etc, and the several links provided in this topic will help you get the grasp of that

[Un Autre Monde]

...right...

Firstly, which is which? I can't tell which is yours and which is Wedge of Doom

Secondly, we need a bit more info than that, if you read the Beginners' Guide To Vapourbots it summarises what stats you need.

Ask us if you need any help, we're always willing.

[ninteen45]

Yeah, I already have what it is made like written somewhere, I'll show it.

Name: ROT8
Weight: 88.6 KG
Shape: Box-like with metal extenders holding up the main components from the ground.
Drive: Small rubber wheels. The main body is high above the ground.
Motors: Two rigged wiachi motors for drive and one for the main weapon.
Speed: 6 MPH.
Turning circle: 0 CM
Armour: 1 MM titanium porotecting the main innards, Aluminium enforced plastic extenders holding the wheels in place.
Ground clearance: 20 CM
Srimech: None
Weapons: A powerful Aluminium enforced plastic disc holding 4 titanium beater bars.

Virtue: Powerful weapon
Vice: Often falls over when reversing.


I'm not that good with calculating the weight as I'm not that common with Wiachi motors.

[Un Autre Monde]

...right...it's a promising start but could use some improving:

1) 'rigged Whyachi motors' is not a concept I understand, sorry If you could provide a link to prove they actually exist, we will see, but I think you may be better off with some Mags or LEMs in there, if you want some power. My motor table linked above should help with that.

2) 88.6kg? I'd build it up to the maximum 100kg if I were you...

3) 1mm titanium armour...that is not going to last at all. For any heavyweight robot I'd advise a minimum of 3.25mm Hardox or stainless steel, 3mm Ti or 4-6mm aluminium/mild steel as armour, or if you go down the plastic route 8-12mm thick polycarb/polypropylene or 20mm HDPE.


4) Plastic? You stats mention plastic, which plastic is it

5) The stats and picture combined don't help me visualise what it looks like all that well?

6) 20cm ground clearance (that is 200mm) and no self righting are utter suicide in the arena, unless you can run either way up.

7) 6mph is slow...

...yeah, there's a few problems If you wish to look at the opposition to know what the norm is around here, I can supply you with five of ZED's finest to look at and compare your design to, see how you could improve:

strickenone.proboards99.com/index.cgi?board=mmheavys&action=display&thread=512 - Compression, hydraulic crushing type machine
strickenone.proboards99.com/index.cgi?board=thvapours&action=display&thread=59 - Axe To Fall, axe/hammer type machine
strickenone.proboards99.com/index.cgi?board=tdivapours&action=display&thread=635 - Roo Of All Evil, ring spinner type machine
strickenone.proboards99.com/index.cgi?board=teambv&action=display&thread=350 - Fling, electric/spring loaded flipper type machine
strickenone.proboards99.com/index.cgi?board=ajhw&action=display&thread=294 - Gehenna, all rounder with pneumatic flipper and electric spinning bar

Those should give you an idea of what sort of stats we're looking for, and what sort of values are normal.

[AJ]

Not a bad first attempt, well done ninteen45. I’ll try and expand on what V had said.

Please don’t be offended by our comments, we get a bit carried away trying to help sometimes.

Weight
The weight limit is 100kgs, so you have plenty of weight to play with still. Was this value actually calculated or was it just a guess? If you’re just guessing, state the full 100kgs. If you’re calculating it properly, you still have plenty of weight to make improvements.

Shape
I think I understand this. Is it possible to try and get a better picture of ROT8? Since I don’t know what ROT8 or Wedge of Doom look like, I’m finding it hard to see which robot is which.

Drive
Not a bad first attempt. How many wheels do you have? Also, what are the wheel hubs made of? This isn’t too important but it does help us to understand the durability of your wheels.

Motors
Not quite sure what “rigged wiachi” motors are. If you mean Team Whyachi gearboxes – you need to choose a motor to power them. I would highly advise using “S28-400 Magmotors” which are a popular choice for vapourbots due to the superb power/weight ratio. You could use the TWM3 Whyachi gearbox with those motors. As an example, BioHazard used S28-400 Magmotors.

Speed
A little on the slow side for a wheeled vapourbot. Speeds usually range between 10mph and 20mph. 15mph would be a good average speed.

Turning Circle
Perfect.

Armour
As V suggested, you can improve the armour a lot. 3.25mm thick Hardox is a popular choice for armour. It’s quite heavy and doesn’t come any thinner than 3.25mm. But 4mm should protect you from the majority of weapons. The best spinners can tear whole panels off, but that’s unavoidable. Spinners, crushers and axes have a very hard time getting through even the thinnest of this stuff.

Not quite sure about the Aluminium enforced plastic extenders, though…

Ground Clearance
20cm is very high. 20mm is even considered high in most places. Unless there is a reason for it being so high off the floor, I would suggest around 10mm (or 1cm). Anything lower than 5mm is considered too low, while anything over (probably) 30mm is considered too high – and you’re using 200mm.

SriMech
Not too much of a big deal, but there are a huge number of flippers around and having some way of self-righting is advised. But that is up to you.

Weapons
I wouldn’t suggest using a plastic disc of any sort – it would most likely just shatter on impact. Is this disc horizontal of vertical? Any idea of what motor you would like to power it/what sort of speed you are looking at? Have you ever played around with the Team Cosmos calculator? If not, it is worth taking a look at that. I’m afraid I don’t 100% know what beater bars are – again, a better picture would help, if possible.

Strengths & Weaknesses / Virtue & Vice
Fine. But we need to know a few more details before we know exactly how “powerful” this weapon is. My advice is – if you know of any weaknesses – get rid of them! Telling your opponent how to beat you doesn’t often result in success.

That should be plenty to think about. If you can answer just some of our questions, we can help you take it up to the next level. But well done, that’s a pretty good start.

[ninteen45]

V:

1) TWM3M Gearbox

2) I'm going for MW, but I don't know the weight for them in the world of vapourbots.

3) Again, trying for MW.

4) Garolite?

5) Sorry, DSL glitched out so you'll have to imagine a bot like MOE with the weapon directly under it.

6) Weapon is under it. That's why.

7) Wheels are very sensitive.

AJ: thanks for the help, and the guys at GTM get carried away with help too.

[Un Autre Monde]

...right...I think I can see the problem here

The issue is that what you've done works well in Robot Arena 2 (presumably, I play it sometimes and all my robots tend to have the vast majority of their components inside the shell) but vapourbots - what we do - is based a lot more around the laws of physics and what works in real life. So really you need to come up with a design that would be logical in real life and not in a computer game, if your real life robot falls over when you drive it backwards it would be utterly useless.

To try and help with your points there:

1) A TWM3M gearbox is just that - a gearbox. If you use four gearboxes in a robot, unless you have motors attached to those gearboxes you will have about the same power as Pain did in Robot Wars series 2 - that is to say, none at all and you'll look very stupid. Gearboxes alone do not move a robot.

I can't really think of anyone at the moment who states what their wheels are driven by between the motor and the wheel, so you should get away with just giving the motor and what voltage it runs at.

2) Middleweight in vapourbots is generally between 50 and 54kgs - depends on the writer. Most people fight 100kg heavyweights though so you're better off doing one of those as a first time effort.

3) 1mm Ti is still weak, even for a middleweight. I can't recall many real life middles off the top of my head - they're not really a popular weight class - but 1mm Ti is weakish by featherweight standards, so for anything higher...yeah. I repeat my recommendations above - unless there's a good reason why you're skimping on armour, make it thicker.

4) I have been reliably informed that Garolite is not a plastic, it is a type of fibreglass.

5) I think I can visualise it...although I can't recall precisely what MOE looks like to be at all honest. A picture or description of the shape would help.

6) That makes sense, but I'd still advise making it lower (you don't need 20cm just to whirl your weapon around in) and putting a self righting mechanism of some sort on as an awful lot of robots, both vapour and real life, are flippers.

7) ...eh? You can have the most sensitive, grippiest wheels in the world but 6mph is still quite a slow speed.

Andy raised some very good points about the weapon as well, it's not really very detailed and we have no way of telling how much damage it will cause just from that detail. Again, look at other machines, see what they've done, and develop an idea of what sort of stats are needed.

Hope that helps.

[Apeman!]

how high is the entire robot Ninteen?

[ninteen45]

Seems like I have a lot of lurking to do.

[AJ]

Hey ninteen, how's the lurking going?

Have you got any further with designing ROT8?